January 26, 2020
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Lothar Schafer: Quantum Reality and the Spiritual Mind



I please introduce Laura Schaeffer thank you thank you so quantum reality and the spiritual mind so you will find more details in a book that just appeared four weeks ago science has made a remarkable discovery in the last century it has found out that it cannot really describe the world the reason is that there is a part of the world that we cannot see it is non empirical science is based on the thesis that by watching by observing the world we can understand it but you cannot see the non empirical world so the discovery has in a way pulled out the very basis of science from UNAIDS but yes science has a but and and it doesn't smell good either so um yes the visible world is Maya it's it's a system of tricky deceptions like the commercials of a big company or the statements of our government observing the world instructs us but at the same time it can deceive us I'm sorry now I got a few days ago I got some some stuff think for example about Isaac Newton he said in the beginning God formed matter in solid messy hard impenetrable particles so very hard as never to wear or break in pieces at the same time he wrote in Principia Mathematica I have no need of hypotheses so how can it be that somebody talks about how God created matter and at the same time things he has no need for hypothesis Maya means that inspired minds were often misled by their own discoveries Newton's physics was materialism everything is explained in terms of material particles particles are eternal they never Brea break in pieces nature is nature is eternal so there was no room for anything spiritual and mental everything is explained in terms of the properties of particles um there's something very interesting about language our language washes our brain what what do you say for example in in English when you want to say something is unimportant it doesn't matter if it's not matter it doesn't matter but what would you say in that the pun here is different in other words the Dutch language free programs you much less for materialism in the English yeah well and the most powerful formulations of materialism come out of the English language range it's Newton's physics and Darwin's biology and maybe the banking system but that's not nobody's not dogmatic what do you say in English when when something is empty like you have a box it's empty what do you say there's nothing no thing what if there is no thing but it isn't empty because it is filled with invisible forms and as we see that is what quantum theory tells us about the world it is filled with invisible forms in the background of the visible world it's nothing fancy in a few seconds you will see reality where does it come from it comes from lettin raise things things are real there is no other English word for reality in German that to reality it is the same comes from raised and via click ayat leg lifts head comes from acting virgin it doesn't have to be a thing but it can act on you is real so you know sometimes people meet and say ok let's discuss our issues in an objective way they cannot really they can only be objective to the extent of the permission of their language it's a very important point so um Newton's materialism of course it was immensely successful think of the technological consequences so on and so Darwin entered it into biology and then having or not having staff became the essence of life and greed and aggression became the virtues of our society it's logical it's a natural order quantum physics has put an end to this in the last century vanna heisenberg declared the end of materialism he said modern atomic theory no longer allows any naive materialistic concept of the universe Adams elementary particles aren't really material particles in a few seconds you will see why he said this but in general quantum physics says the basis of the world is non material there is a part we can't see but it is real part reality it is real we can't see it because it doesn't consist of things doesn't consist of stuff but of forms why are the forms real because they have the potential to act on us they can act on us they form a realm of potentiality actually all empirical things are emanations all of such a realm material particles emanate out of a realm of waves and waves their betters of information so you see already come out this idea petals of information information is normally for some mind it's a cosmic realm of information cosmic mind and more and more of these items come out and they aren't stupid excuse me so yes you see we are not going to any don't have to talk about fancy stuff there are lots of fancy phenomena and if you are not a physicist you don't understand them and say ok hell with it or whatever there are some very simple things that show you for example that there is a part of the world that is non material the basis is non material like you know atoms that's very simple they have a nucleus nucleus contains 99.99% of the mass it is about ten thousand times smaller than the size of an atom what is the size of an atom is when another atom enters that range there is a repulsive force so you know as a consequence this is empty it's empty stuff because a nucleus is yes ten thousand times smaller than the size of an atom if we could take all the nuclei of all the atoms in this globe and put them together you know what kind of area we would fill the European fashion fashion a football field nobody would play football the rest is empty actually it isn't completely empty it is filled with potentiality it was really is really a consequence of Schrodinger's quantum mechanics Schrodinger's quantum mechanics is the only way to understand the properties of atoms and molecules in this theory the electrons in atoms they are not particles there are there are waves when an electron enters an atom it becomes a wave not a material wave because these wave forms in Schrodinger's physics they don't have units of matter or energy they are just numbers their forms the electrons become a form so it's like an electron has two states it can appear as a particle when we see it is always a localized particle and we leave it alone becomes a wave and then you know physicists are there they're kind of wrestled with this say it's a wave particle duality baloney there's no duality it's like water can be liquid you drink it can be ice we don't speak of the water liquid ice duality there are two states particle state wave state and the waves they don't have units of energy when this first became known the physicists said what the hell is going on here then it was Max von who said well the meaning and the nature of these waves is there are probability waves what would you see when you could crawl it to an atom nothing it's empty once in a while but there's an electron whenever you see it it's a particle then becomes wave again repeated observations show us these waves so yes um bond max bond said there are probability waves that's the meaning of these you know wait what are probabilities that imagine us numbers they're just numbers they're ratios of numbers there are patterns of information the visible order even though they have no matter or energy they determine the order of the world the interaction of the waves of atoms determines what kind of molecules can form the wave forms of molecules determine how they interact and for example how they keep you alive when they interact in your body conclusion is visible reality is based on phenomena that transcend the materialism of classical physics atoms are empty so the electrons in atoms are numbers there's this wonderful phenomenon perennial philosophy of course already the Indian sages discovered it and called it something like sanatana-dharma all-pervading truth there are truths that are so deep and so general that they are constantly coming back again and again or thousands of years in different people in different parts of the world so the idea that that electrons are numbers or things are numbers is such an idea for example photographers already said all things are numbers big deal that's what he meant Nick Gnostic ooza a German monk he said number was the first model of things in the creator's mind and then of course there's Plato who said real atoms are not things no their forms in some transcendent world those are the real atoms so it's interesting you know at this point do to think perennial philosophy does it mean does it tell us something for one thing it shows us that ideas evolve when the Greek philosophers said atoms are numbers or things are numbers basically they said the same thing as as quantum physics but quantum physics has other implications in this number business and secondly ideas may recur in different people different times because perhaps our minds are connected to something it's not yet think about so a second perennial concept the existence of non-empirical of a non-empirical background okay so there is a realm in the world that we can't see it consists of forms the invisible world is an emanation out of this realm and here we can do something else you see we don't need fancy stuff we can just look at the states of atoms and molecules all the atoms or molecules exist in States that's easy to see it's like an atom is like a it's like a letter many steps each step represents an amount of energy fix the amount of energy a quantum of energy it's a quantum state so like you when you take a ladder to climb on top of a roof you go from step step atoms molecules are like this they stand on a step where occupies state the other states they are empty okay so quantum chemist quoi the empty States virtual states they exist in a system but they call it virtual here's an example the hydrogen atom don't worry about it the states are in Schrodinger's mechanism they are defined by numbers they since they define quantum energy their quantum numbers never mind they define quantum states and they define for each state a waveform each state has its own waveform that determines in this kind of physics the property of this state so if hydrogen atom exists in this state it looks like a like a model in another state it may look like a like a piece of cake or like a window of a Gothic cathedral or something okay now the point is when the system is in one state let's say in this one the other forms also exist but you can't see them because there's nothing there if it exists in this one you can repeat observations you can get this form but nothing is in the other states if it jumps into this state then you get it then you get a sphere but then all the others are invisible so there is an order there that is that is existent it's part of a lot yeah I have to apologize you know this winter weather I've been traveling in Europe for the last month thinking of some weather and I didn't have clothes and so on so it really got to me didn't you have some beer for the AMIA okay well so um these forms exist they are virtual all right what are they there are mathematical forms they're patterns of information but they are real because they have the potential to become visible namely by the system jumps into them you see oh this is a very simple example of something non visible but real what did I want to say a virtual states formal realm of potentiality or game you have said that the only thing that an atom or molecule can do is to jump into a virtual state it cannot jump into nothing so you know right now theories become popular theories of nothing like life evolves out of nothing how stop it life evolves because systems have virtual states they can actualize or the universe came out of nothing how stupid it came out of a realm of potentiality that existed before it was visible so actually it was Aristotle who invented this this concept of potentiality he wanted to deal with a problem that Parmenides pointed out by many dis drove his contemporaries crazy by saying there can be no motion and there can be no change he said for example if a thing changes if something seems to come out of a thing either what is coming out of they already exists so it didn't come into being or it came out of nothing but nothing comes out of nothing so nothing can change we can spend the rest of the evening to discuss it but we will not but it was a logical difficulty and Aristotle said well there are three modes of being there's actually being non being and potentially being something can actualize out of a potential state so to speak so yeah in atoms molecules they're empty states they can become actualized it's the same idea Giordano Bruno 16th century monk burned on stake in Rome he said the structure of reality is coincidence of matter and form potency and act so that being logically divided into what it is and what it can be is physically undivided and one so he made a connection between potentiality and wholeness maybe that will come back to non empirical reality in an empirical science is an embarrassment so it's not good for the business you know so the Pioneers they tried to explain it away niels bohr for example he said we don't have any experience of things we only have experience of our experience and the one is not the same as the other so you just forget about it deep if there are strange things coming out they mean nothing it's our experience whose idea what was it actually can't Immanuel Kant who said we don't experience things we only experience our interactions with things so and then Einstein it is it is fair to say that I understand he hated quantum physics all his life he tried to prove that it was wrong he had to admit that it was very powerful in many ways but he didn't like it so he said there's something wrong with it specifically something is missing we need a theory that is complete it is a great pleasure for me to correct this giant in the human history by saying what is incomplete is not the theory what is incomplete is the visible reality because it doesn't tell us anything about what is going on in the invisible part there is an invisible but non-empirical part but that means we cannot experience it we cannot measure it so is it real why can I say it's real yes for example the invisible virtual states of atoms and molecules they are real because they guide empirical phenomena like virtual States there's tear chemical reactions the hundreds of thousands of examples that show how the how the empty state love molecules determine how they react or the empty state of atoms are they react in a special kind of reaction called redox where what am i doing protect me against this men oh okay so so there's a special kind of reactions redox where chemicals exchange electrons and they lead to changes in magnetic properties that depend on the empty States it can be measured or oxygen can serve your metabolism because it has invisible degenerate States yeah in chemistry being degenerate is something nice actually so here are the other examples where we can skip them so virtual states are real but is it convincing or would you like to say no degenerate it's a it's kind of a technical term the general state just means that two states they have the same energy why chemists call that the generals I don't know it is kind of weird if you think about it but it's it's a pun degeneres know the general degenerate state degenerate states have the same energy yeah virtual empty an empty state it's very good here we should talk a empty state has associate associated with it an energy that is actualized when it becomes occupied but when it's empty the energy is not there but to get in there the system needs energy okay but doesn't the general state means there are two states in the system that have the same energy or you need the same energy to jump into so in other words you have the energy you don't know where you land right or left or whatever you can be a problem I can see that so virtual states can be real and you can say no molecules are guided in the actions by the waveforms of their empty states like by inner images now that concept in images comes out of psychology there is a German brain scientist girl tutor he calls inner images all that which is hidden behind the visible surface of living beings and steers their actions in chemistry a molecule does nothing that isn't allowed by waveform and inner image of a virtual state in life a human being does nothing that isn't allowed by an inner image in our mind so you know if you like – there's an equivalence of the mental and the physical quantum physics is the psychology of the universe yeah – the average Western mind is crazy a few hundred years ago they would have put me on a pile of Earth wouldn't you know is interesting if you have an employee and he has opinions you don't like people come and say you are fired if someone is thinking I wish I could really still put him on fire you know no it's just but you have fire so you're out so the discovery of the quantum phenomena that is a very important point it singles a change of mind like a mutation of our mind and I think it signals a metamorphosis of the human consciousness a jump into spiritual mind that time I have to define spiritual mind is a mind who is not afraid to seek to search for truth in a non empirical world and even science can do that now so in the non-empirical background of the universe there are many consequences but I know I will only mention aside like understanding evolution biology's love to say quantum physics has nothing to do with biology no synthesis of a gene is a chemical process you know is a quantum process but quantum physics has nothing to do with this and evolution life comes out of nothing no it doesn't come out of nothing evolution is adaptation of life forms to forms in the realm of the cosmic potentiality it's only secondarily to the environment but that's just aside yeah it's that same point so you see there is this german poet villain bushy he wrote a book is sold hundreds of millions of copies and and he said is there wolf a slovenia to leave the second songs in yet you can translate by saying once a reputation is gone life can be a lot of fun so well he meant a person who has too many girlfriends but but you can apply it to scientists who who dare to have forbidden thoughts and it's the same consequence so heading ttan so how Arthur Stanley Eddington one time we realize it said it's you know when we make measurements in physics what we measure makes sense because some of the instruments they are connected the background that we know like you see light dots in the night sky it makes sense because you know about planets revolving rod Sun and he said the strange thing about atoms is we don't know the background atoms are your eating enjoy your dinner atoms they are like a brain there is a lot of activity but we don't know what is going on in a mind so he said let's think the two together the atoms and the brain and say the background of atoms is mind like already in the thirties of last century so he said the stuff of the world is mine stuff the universe is of the nature of a thought in the universal mind many other people have expressed such views recently James genes and stir of friend – cafe toes and see own fish pick even others so step by step these these things evolve in the physics the physicists went looking for it but they were kind of pushed over this in the direction like when you think about probability waves there are patterns of information someone says information information is normally for some mind whose mind their cosmic door stupid or potentiality waves that thought like all thoughts have the nature of potentiality my thoughts are real but you don't see them they have the potential to come out its executive definition of state of potentiality st. Augustine already had this you have told this before but he was speaking to people in Rome and he said I just realized this is really strange I speak to you you are from Rome have to speak Latin if he were from Greek I would have speak Greek but I just realized right now the thought in me is not in Latin not in Greek something completely different it's in a state of potentiality it is in non-empirical state do you want to hear the story about st. Augustine as a playboy no I've told it too often you want to hear it he was a saint but he was also playboy well it at the time of life when it was fun to be a playboy it was a playboy big dinners vino italiano you know we girlfriends many at the same time the real thing but he knew it wasn't quite right so he had a prayer it said there God let me be a good person but not yet today is actually true story to citation all right um what did I want to sing it oh yeah you know if there's a cosmic realm of forms that are thought like does it mean as a cosmic mind it's here I have hid something okay now it doesn't yeah the idea of a cosmic mind is also perennial philosophy you know hiegel already in the 18th 19th century he said absolutes it is a primary structure of reality if you are proud of your thinking think twice because it's not your thinking it's the thinking of the cosmic spirit in you I don't know whether he thought he was the first but he wasn't the Indian sages thousands of years ago at this this example example of the waterpots they said if you take a thousand parts fill them with water put them in the Sun you see the Sun in each one of them but there's only one Sun if you take a thousand people 950 of them will have a mind the consciousness but there's only one consciousness god of cosmic consciousness so you see the same ancient ideas yes and whether scientists like that sort of stuff or not you cannot avoid to admit that's the way quantum physics describe the world puts it into the context of ancient spirituality whether you believe in this or not it does put it in this for example no we talked about our molecular wave functions no units of mass or energy they're just pure forms in Aristotle's metaphysics all things were mixtures of matter and form there was only one pure form God protein Asst he said God is the one the world isn't the creation of the one but an emanation due to a necessary flowing over of the divine the one is all all is out of the one ah master Eckhart Bertrille we talked about virtual States now the empty States the term of quantum chemist who invented it Mazda Eckert a medieval mystic lived in Cologne um he said the existence of things in the empirical world is due to the actualization of their virtual being is it is that is crazy I mean the the chemists who picked this term that they weren't thinking of my cycle I bet you they didn't even know about him and they came up with the same idea and you have to say what is going on in a human mind that's something like this happens again you can say are we connected it's quantum theory of form of mysticism yeah so when you talk about cosmic consciousness and a mind like background maybe being connected you can ask well is it do you have any proof and you have to say well what do you mean with proof I mean if somebody feels connected you can't measure something can't measure the temperature of a brain and say okay that guy's connected that guy know is not connected there's no such thing whether or not you are connected you have to answer your mind must answer that question okay I can't do it for you nobody can do it for you you need a personal response I can share with you an experience I had and don't worry I'm not going off the deep end that shows me that somehow I was connected to things without knowing and it's like this some time ago I realized that all the ideas that I'm talking about now in connection with quantum physics existed in me when I was in my 20s some time ago um they didn't exist in the same way they existed in a symbolical way and I can prove it because at the time I painted I painted the ideas that I'd talked about in a symbolic way for example cosmic spirit is thinking in us in those days are sometimes made self-portrait I always made it with the cosmos in my somewhere in my face it's same idea I had no knowledge about the Indian sages or anything it's kind of weird another point the principle of waves in quantum physics Schrodinger's mechanics the world comes out of waves is also an ancient idea spandy Kashmir Shaivism spandy is the wave of the ocean of consciousness without which there is no consciousness at all the world is filled with waves it's a sign of the creativity of the universe the visible world comes out of it this is the Indian teaching when I was a young man I was fascinated with the ocean with waves are loved waves I was crazy so I started to paint them my oceans had a problem the waves came out of the sky yeah it was except then people started to worry about me every time I paint in the ocean the waves came you know this is like the boat is like symbol for us it's it's a road through spanner towards the light sometime at the end of my twenties I stopped doing that I didn't even or the waves could be a problem you know I forgot about it my wife had these she was pulling out one as who did that where did you find this and she had one after another every time I did waves they came out of the sky it's the same idea and if you're not too critical it's beautiful so well um yes crazy some of my friends said you know you should see a doctor and help my wife like it so I said you go you just go so well Jack some of these are really I cannot believe I did this and a final example in this life if you want to be creative you have to leave the empirical world in your thinking if you are a flower it means if you want to bloom you have to leave the pot this flower did and it is blooming so I've said quantum theory is a form of mysticism mysticism used to be a method to explore the world list of Latinas when he says often when I wake up out of myself or of my body to myself and step out of the other knees into myself we hold the most wonderful beauty it is then that I lift myself above all the perceptible when a student asked Yakov boomer the German mystic where you could find God the master answered son when you can throw yourself into that where there is no no creation no creative dwelling then you shall hear what God has to say when the student then said where is this that where I can I can hear God the master said it is in you my son God hears and sees through you speaks in you and whispers to your spirit and your spirit hears his voice so um how can you be sure that your mind is a spiritual mind because deep inside it you can hear that the cosmic spirit is whispering in you ba Javed bastami was a Muslim mystic in the ninth century he said for thirty years I went about for God when after that time I opened my eyes I discovered that it was God who was searching for me your inner potential is like that for many decades you may look for it and see what it might be and then when you wake up you see it has been looking for you when that happens the ideas will begin to flow into your mind which has become a spiritual mind good books need good friends thank you you

Jean Kelley

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26 COMMENTS

  1. Santanu Kumar Acharya Posted on April 26, 2019 at 9:03 am

    Overwhelmingly beautiful and self fulfilling. Many thanks.

    Reply
  2. BHUDEB BHATTACHARYA Posted on April 26, 2019 at 9:03 am

    Thank you Lothar sir.

    Reply
  3. Honestmicky Posted on April 26, 2019 at 9:03 am

    Outstanding. A+

    Reply
  4. Grant Smith Posted on April 26, 2019 at 9:03 am

    For the sciencntist he has traveled the impossible journey, he has climbed the highest mountains, as he pulls himself over the last cliff he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been there for centuries.

    Reply
  5. Grant Smith Posted on April 26, 2019 at 9:03 am

    Aristotles unmoved mover or the actualized actualizer is the exact same idea. "What is spoken word or thought but information".

    Reply
  6. Sri MG Posted on April 26, 2019 at 9:03 am

    …"அவ்வவர்காம் பரிசொன்று உண்டு அவ்வவ்வுலகத்துக்கு அவ்வவர் தேவராம்

    Reply
  7. boowonder888 Posted on April 26, 2019 at 9:03 am

    The Force (StarWars) and The Secret (from the Vedas) are probably real. We are beginning to be globally conscious of that fact. The Force=The Secret.

    Reply
  8. jtytytyty mjgjhkjhkjh Posted on April 26, 2019 at 9:03 am

    …i have to disagree with him about his statement that greed and violence came from materialism…..they were around long before that ….

    Reply
  9. Pete Jordan Posted on April 26, 2019 at 9:03 am

    I'm done with this discussion. Its a waste of time

    Reply
  10. Pete Jordan Posted on April 26, 2019 at 9:03 am

    Perhaps it was cast out from another plane of existance or another Universe.

    Reply
  11. Pete Jordan Posted on April 26, 2019 at 9:03 am

    I want to amend my last comment by stating that, yes, there is SPACE in that the fifth dimensional union (or field, actually) exists everywhere in the universe. It was in existence before linear time and matter. The infinite nothing duration came to a point, or a sizable area, where stasis gave way to somthing of awareness of a consciousness without form or mass. A field developed, in my theory of Initial Wave or Multimetric Synchronous Convolution.

    Reply
  12. Scot Turley Posted on April 26, 2019 at 9:03 am

    This doesn't make sense to me. Aren't probability waves mathematical tools that describe likely outcomes, which are the product of physical particles and the physical fields in which they exist. Mathematics is a human construct. It has no existence independent of the humans that use it, and the physical objects which it describes.

    Reply
  13. TRIBALTECHNIK Posted on April 26, 2019 at 9:03 am

    Maybe Lothar is going in the right direction.. Things are really difficult.. Success may require a lot of hard work, open mind, positive attitude, etc… 🙂
    Seek and You will Find.. 🙂
    Thank You 🙂

    Reply
  14. Keder Cantave Posted on April 26, 2019 at 9:03 am

    virtual states: invisible but can become visible example something real but unseen

    Reply
  15. Keder Cantave Posted on April 26, 2019 at 9:03 am

    so all matter didn't appear out of nothing but something that was always there but invisible makes sense.

    Reply
  16. 1971SuperLead Posted on April 26, 2019 at 9:03 am

    Lothar Schäfer is a Distinguished Professor of Physical Chemistry (emeritus) at the University of Arkansas.

    Reply
  17. Brad Smith Posted on April 26, 2019 at 9:03 am

    The speaker is incorrect in assigning the quote: " I have no need of that hypothesis"
    to Newton.
    It was Pierre-Simon Laplace that was responsible for this.
    (Arrogant as he, and it was)

    Reply
  18. D Graf Posted on April 26, 2019 at 9:03 am

    When a soap bubble breaks
    what is the loss?
    The same space is there
    minus the gloss!
    The Self exists with form or without.

    Reply
  19. Pete Jordan Posted on April 26, 2019 at 9:03 am

    The missing link here is the intangible part of the theory that is not seen. By most people. I, on the other hand ✋, have problems related to temporal rifts of space-time. I have had them in 2003 and this year took the cake and smeared it on my face. I had been experiencing fifth dimensional issues when under stress relating to lies. Hard to believe, but I have the closest thing to what would be eidetic memory and lies create horrendous disfigurement of my inner matrix of perception. Stress is also a trigger. Any emotions connct me to intense memories so strong, temporal schisms develope in my experiential reality. I interact with solid things that I can tell you are not in this linear timeline we share and I am not sure if you are here with me anyhow, if I have already switched to an alternate. I digress, I am here and people around me are authentic people. That is the illusion in my life:to stabilize, I simply accept the futures I see, and I I will choose the best. And I disallow wondering about the space in my head where these things happen. There, cured.

    Reply
  20. tubedweeb Posted on April 26, 2019 at 9:03 am

    Can not stand how he talks. Both his inflictions (affected?) and his delivery sucks big time. 

    Reply
  21. Open-minded Skeptic Posted on April 26, 2019 at 9:03 am

    Very informative and thought-provoking. And Lothar has a killer dry sense of humor, which makes the presentation enjoyable to watch, Cheers.

    Reply
  22. IThinkWithMy Dick Posted on April 26, 2019 at 9:03 am

    I am proud of being a reductionist & atheist. Absolutely nothing wrong with this.
    Like Lothar says, to each their own philsophy.

    Ethics, deciding what choices are optimal and worst, can be done only from practical mathematical & logistical models.

    Reply
  23. amaro lucano Posted on April 26, 2019 at 9:03 am

    not exactly a motivational speaker this fellow but – what is far more important – clearly someone who draws all the right conclusions. Would like to hear this delivered in his native german.

    Reply
  24. SouIatman Posted on April 26, 2019 at 9:03 am

    Absolutely wonderful lecture. Enjoyable, and incredibly profound. Thank you for sharing this.

    Reply
  25. Open-minded Skeptic Posted on April 26, 2019 at 9:03 am

    I believe it confuses people when we say that reality is an illusion. They think, “Yeah, right. I’m in a horrible car accident and wind up bloody and mangled in the hospital. And that’s just an illusion?”

    This place is real as hell while we’re here; it has to be in order to function properly. So perhaps a better way to make this point is to say that matter is not fundamental. And that there is a non-physical force (spiritual or otherwise) that is generating this seemingly solid environment.

    Reply
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