[loud music obscures his speech]
Is atheism a religion? What? I can’t hear you! Let’s not look at atheism
from a superficial point of view. From a what? A “sacrificial pint of stew?” Can you maybe turn down the music a little bit, please? But let’s go deep into this belief system. Jesus, that music’s not even just an intro, is it? It’s not going to stop. Well, audience, if I can handle it, so can you, right? Besides, you gotta admit, it’s kinda catchy. [musical noises]
♪♫D-n-d’na, d-n’d’daa♪♫ ♪♫d-d-d’n-d-da d’n’d’da♪♫ ♪♫ Ooh! ♪♫ But I’ve already had it stuck in my head for too long,
so let’s get through this, okay? So, a belief system, eh? Okay, what do you say we take the most basic kind of atheist, the kind of atheist that *I* grew up as, before I started noticing that people actually
straight-facedly argue for the existence of God. Specifically, that’s the kind of person who doesn’t even realize that people actually believe in gods. The kind of person who doesn’t even really comprehend that it’s being presented as a serious option. The kind of person who hasn’t even considered
whether it’s true or not, because they just live their life without the thought of a god ever crossing their mind. A person who doesn’t believe it exists because they have no belief about whether it exists or not, because the concept isn’t even in their head. According to you, that’s a belief system, So what are the beliefs that comprise that system? Because for the life of me, I can’t think of a single one. Yes, it is said that atheism is a lack of belief in gods or a God. Correct! If you lack the belief, even if you don’t realize that it’s a potential belief that you could have then you’re definitely not a “theist”, so you are a “non theist”, otherwise known as an a-theist. This is as basic as it gets. Now of course you can have different opinions related to your atheism. You can have various philosophical opinions that will shape your reasoning for why you don’t believe in a god. You may have various opinions that you can only hold without contradiction because you don’t believe in a god. You may believe that gods don’t exist,
or you may not. You may be glad that gods don’t exist, or you might wish they did, or you might have no opinion on it whatsoever. You might believe in the supernatural;
you might not. You might believe in souls;
you might not. Heaven?
You might not. Reincarnation?
Maybe not. You might be religious;
you might not. You can even think all atheists are idiots and that atheism is destroying Western civilization, and really really wish that everyone was religious, which is bizarre, but I’ve actually had atheists say that to me. Really, you can do pretty much anything, because as long as you don’t believe that at least one god exists, by definition, you’re an a-theist. Wow, it feel really surreal to be explaining this again. It’s been a long time, but apparently we’re still stuck explaining this basic shit about how words work. World’s a funny place. But when you look deeply into, uh, atheism, and when you speak to atheists, you begin to see that atheism isn’t just a lack of belief in gods, but there’s more to it. Uhh, no. By definition there’s nothing more to atheism than that. That’s it. Check that one check-box and
♫ta-daa♫ you’re an atheist. I think what you actually mean is that when you speak to atheists, or you listen to what they say, you find find that there’s more to “atheists”, as people, than that they don’t believe in God, which OBVIOUSLY is true.
We’re people. Nobody’s entire personality and world-view can be determined by their answer to one single binary question. Taking myself as the example, I have plenty of opinions about god, religion, philosophy, the nature of life, the universe and everything, just like anyone else. But if you tinkered around in my brain and you changed all those opinions; if you switched every single one of them to its complete opposite, and you even completely removed my opinion that no gods exist, and the only thing you left unchanged is that I’m not convinced there’s a god … then guess what? I’m still an atheist. I believe nothing that I currently believe and yet I’m still exactly as much of an atheist as I was before. So that being the case, I’m really not sure how you can possibly think that atheism qualifies as a belief system. You find that when you make comparisons between atheism and religion that there are certain similarities. Mmm, yeah, I guess that’s true;
they’re both descriptions of human … brain … thinggies. What’s the right word; it can’t be “opinions”, it can’t be “beliefs”, or “thoughts”, because religion is a set of opinions, beliefs, thoughts, but atheism isn’t actually those; it’s a *lack* of those, or I should say exactly one of those, so they’re just “things about the brain” … ? Here’s a brain that believes “this” and here’s a brain that doesn’t. What else is similar between atheism and religion? Well, they’re both words. They’re both English. They’re both kinda like middle-length … words. Yeah, I’m stuck. For example: in every religion, there are either gods or a God who is worshiped. Noo, for a start there are religions that have no concept of gods at all. I will agree with you that there are no modern major religions that are entirely godless in every sense of the word, in every sect of that religion. But there are less major religions like Raëlism which are completely godless, and within many of the major religions there are godless sects as well. Jainism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Confucianism, and other Eastern religions in particular. And in those religions, gods aren’t really what you would think of, as a Christian, when you think of a “god”. They’re often just spirits, or people who have been liberated form the cycle of rebirth, or other things that really wouldn’t qualify as a god by any Abrahamic concept of that term that we’re used to, especially when they’re not worshiped, which they’re often not. And that’s why, when I was trying to find a definition of “religion” to use way back near the beginning of my Kent Hovind series, What I ended up settling on was this checklist that I found where gods and supernatural beings are just one of the things that can characterize a religion. It’s meant to be as inclusive as possible with a really really broad sense of what constitutes a religion. Every item on that list is optional and the more of them that your belief system has, then the more religion-y it is, and atheism has none of them. and the atheist worships two kinds of gods. Uhh, no! By definition, no. If you worship any kind of god at all, you’re a theist, not an atheist. Look, I know this is _really_ complicated, but try to keep up, okay? For the atheist, the first thing that they worship is the “God of Self”. Ah, I see, so you don’t actually mean that we worship real, actual, literal gods. You mean we worship things you’ll metaphorically refer to as “gods”, or in other words, “NOT GODS”. “All the world’s a stage, and all the men and women merely players.” What, really? We’re actors? Who’s paying us? I don’t remember auditioning, am I doing alright? Man, I hope I don’t get a bad review. Where’s the audience? Are there cameras? Or are they invisible? Wait. Does the audience live on the moon? An invisible moon audience? Oh my god; can they see me all the time? Like, even in the bathroom? Oh man, I’m freaking out, man. Stop watching me, moon people! It’s none of your business what I do in there! Oh yeah, and I don’t worship myself; that’d just be weird. And secondly, the atheist worships the animals as gods. How did you find out about that? Great kitty overlord, I beg your forgiveness; I have forgotten to buy you treats this day! My sin is unforgivable, and I shall immediately clean your litter-box in repentance. Please spare me from your wrath of withholding your snuggles. In the mind of an atheist, the atheist at his core does not want to be morally or spiritually accountable to anyone … Dude, I’m morally accountable to a lot of people, and so is pretty much everyone if they don’t live on a desert island. I’m pretty sure society would fall apart if that wasn’t the case, so you’re just talking shit. But I’ve talked about that a lot before, (My response to Dennis Prager on morality is a decent place to get my view on that) But what I think is a lot more interesting here than moral accountability is this idea of “spiritual” accountability. Uh-what, exactly, does that mean? I am fascinated to find out what that is. You distinguish it from moral accountability as if it’s not the same thing, and judging your actions against some yard stick of what you should or shouldn’t do is “morality”, so “spiritual accountability” is something else that doesn’t have anything to do with whether you should or shouldn’t have done something that you did. So then, what is it? What could it possibly be? Thought crime? Maybe? You didn’t hold this or that opinion, and that’s bad? Okay, well, it’s not something you _did_, but it’s still a moral judgement being passed on your thoughts. It’s saying “In my opinion, your thoughts are morally wrong”, so I don’t think that’s it. I guess the answer lies in the answer to the question, “What is spirituality?” It’s basically just some wish-washy feely bullshit, right? So maybe it’s like, y’know, you die and God picks you up and looks at’cha, and he goes, “Uh-ahh, I dunno, maaaan, something just isn’t workin’ for me maaaan. I’m not pickin’ up those groovy spiritual vibes, man. Maybe if you’d smoked more weeeed, grown some dreds, maybe learned to play the sitar.” [sitar music] … especially to God. Sorry, I kinda lost the plot there. Especially what to God, again? The atheist at his core does not want to be morally or spiritually accountable to anyone, especially to God. Ah, right! Well yeah, given that morality is all about preventing harm to individuals in a society, there’s really not much use being morally accountable to someone that I can’t harm, and who isn’t part of any society. It really makes no sense. I might as well be morally accountable to the people who actually have to deal with me. Y’know? People who can be negatively impacted by the things I do, which God can’t. And you know, to people who actually exist;
that’s important to. I think you’ll agree that there’s no point to being held accountable for hurting a hypothetical person who probably doesn’t exist. And that’s actually what I think God is. Now I know this level of complexity in your thought is difficult, but try really hard to follow along here. If you say to yourself, “I don’t want to be morally and spiritually accountable to God, and I guess my way to achieve that is to not believe in him”, you’re not an atheist. Your starting point for that was that God exists, and you don’t want to do what he says, so you pretend not to believe. That’s not an atheist. That’s a theist. And it’s not just any theist, it’s a particularly stupid one, who actually believes in a being who knows everything he’ll ever think, and yet somehow he’s also managed to convince himself that he can fool that being by pretending he doesn’t believe what he believes it already knows he believes. How many people do you seriously think are that dumb? So, to recap — I’m morally accountable to all the other people in my society, just like everyone else is, whether they like it or not, and that is as it must be for societies to function, says the atheist, and there are a lot of atheists who think like I do, so you’re just wrong on that count, and whether or not I am or wish to be morally accountable to God is irrelevant, since I don’t think he exists. And “spiritually accountable” is a nonsense term that you should probably just stop using, which, to be fair, is the case with most terms that contain the word “spiritual”. An atheist would like to commit adultery, fornication, or any kind of sin, without the sense that there is a god who is not pleased with sin. Oh my god. Okay, where do I even start with this? I could probably make a whole video just about that. But, okay … You say we just want to sin without feeling like there’s a god who’s not pleased with us. That’s not a defining feature of atheists. And I mean by definition, not just from my knowledge of my motivations, and from my knowledge of what other atheists have told me their motivations are. Sure, some atheists hate the idea of a god that watches everything, and tut-tuts when we don’t conform to its exact wishes. Anti-theists, like me, who rightfully hate the idea of the totalitarian Big Brother watching over the entire universe, keeping precise track of every single action that even slightly annoys it, for future punishment, in the exact same way that we hate the idea of a government doing the same thing. It’s no different in principle. And it’s not just about not wanting to follow a particular set of rules, just because they serve no purpose in terms of making the average individual’s life less bad, which as far as I can tell is pretty much the only point of moral rules, and it’s certainly not about wanting to cheat on my wife or something stupid like that, because I’m just not interested, thank you very much for the implication. No. At the very root, it’s about the fact that I don’t believe this obsessively voyeuristic god even exists. Even though, if it does, it should have the power to convince me of its existence with literally no effort. So to get pissy at me for not following its rules when it’s the one and only person that[‘s at] any kind of fault for my lack of belief, and thus my lack of concern for its rules, is just stupid. Especially when its rules are so poorly communicated that Christians are constantly squabbling over what they even are. To say nothing of all the other theistic religions. And of course all of this is especially bad when you get hell involved, but you haven’t mentioned that, and I’m a bit burned out on that subject, so we’ll avoid that. But my point is — Not all atheists dislike the idea of God. Yeah, I know I took the scenic route to that point, but that was the point when I started. I’ve lost count of the number of atheists I’ve heard from who are sad that they lost their belief in God, who wish, very strongly, that they could still believe it, because they found it so comforting, who really wish there was a god, because they feel like the universe is meaningless without one, or because they feel bad that people who hurt others can get away with it without some supernatural punishment in the afterlife, or for numerous other reasons. And then here you come along, telling those people that no, they don’t think any of that. What they did was willfully stop believing in God just because they hate the idea of being monitored, and they really want to cheat on their spouses. You fucking dick! It’s the most obvious thing in the world to me that you haven’t bothered to listen to a great many atheists to find out what they actually think, and I think it would do you some good if you did. and so ultimately, the atheist exalts “self” above God. Um, no. How can I illustrate this. Think about a high score’s table from an old arcade game, okay? That’s me up near the top, “Log”, and on the bottom there is you, “LMG – Loud Music Guy”. And there are some other people on there too, but where is God? Point him out to me, please? You’re having some trouble there, aren’t’cha? So tell me, am I above God on this table? No. Am I below him on this table? No. Why?
Because he’s not on the table! I’m really not getting how something that simple and basic can be hard for anyone to grasp, especially about something that they’re speaking so authoritatively on in a video. But apparently you’re having a fuck of a time. Hey, listen pal. I’m more than willing, if you would like, to provide consultation for a small fee. At least that way you can avoid having the statements you make about the people your shit-talking be false be definition. That’s usually a good idea. And so, in the life of the atheist, the atheist IS the god. Yeah no, no. Obviously not, dude. I’m not a god, neither is anyone else.
Don’t be stupid. But obviously I can see the root cause of your fuckup here. You’ve been raised to think to God makes the rules, so you’ve come to think that the act of making rules is in and of itself a god-like action. As if individuals, organizations, governments, and other human based entities haven’t made rules since the dawn of fucking time. Which means it’s just as human of an act as anything else humans do. And speaking of which, it’s really fascinating to me that you consider the only two options here to be “The self makes all the rules, and is accountable to nobody else.” Or, “God makes all the rules and everybody is accountable only to it and not to each other.” As if you haven’t realized there are other possibilities. No. As if you haven’t realized there are other _people_. Do you live on a desert island? Were you raised by wolves? When you signed up for this website, did you not realize you were agreeing to follow a set of rules? Did you not realize those rules weren’t made up by God? Hmm? Now granted, Youtube’s rules are just as vague and open to interpretation as God’s rules, but that shouldn’t be a problem for you, right? I’ve often asked atheists, uhh, this question, as a test: “If you were given the evidence that you need as proof that God exists, then would you submit and worship God?” Well, assuming it’s the god of Christianity with all the wrath and infinite punishment for not worshiping him that comes along with that, then yeah, I guess if you actually managed to convince me he existed, then I would have to, yeah, wouldn’t I? Purely to save my own ass. But if you then asked me, “Would you like it if that’s how it was”, then my answer would be,
“FUCK NO!” I mean, sorry, I’m just not super happy about the idea of any one, no matter who they are, claiming total domination and ownership of me, and threatening me into doing their twisted will. It’s not real pleasant, but in that case, I’d have to do it. And very often, most atheists would refuse to worship God, even if given the evidence. I very much doubt that. The ones you asked might’ve said they would, but I doubt that it’s really the case, even so, that if they actually found themselves in that scenario they would be able to not do it. People want to think that they would have the will to oppose the iron fist of the evil dictator, but it’s not usually the case. Not when so much is on the line. If you actually convinced them, and you convinced them that worship was necessary to appease God’s blood-lust, then I think most of them would go through the motions of worshiping him as well as they could just out of sheer terror. That doesn’t mean we’d be ecstatic about it, but if it’s necessary to avoid the unimaginably disproportionate punishment for insufficient displays of adoration, and if it doesn’t hurt anyone else, well, so be it. It must be fuckin’ scary being a believer, by the way. I never tried it myself, but I can only imagine it’s constant tooth-gritting, pants-shitting fear. Or that is, if you take your beliefs seriously, but fortunately human psychology is nice and flexible, so subconsciously you probably don’t take it quite as seriously as you consciously think you do. And the fear element that should be there is toned down quite a bit, I would bet. So, atheism isn’t so much about the lack of belief in God or gods, but atheism is really the suppression of the existence of God. Is that so? Well, I find your reasoning interesting,
so let’s examine that. Your premise is that most atheists that you’ve personally asked say that they would not worship God if they were convinced of his existence. Okay, I believe you.
I accept that. Of course, since you’re talking about most atheists that “you’ve talked to” (probably a pretty small sample size) and certainly not “all” atheists, and you’re looking to redefine the very essence of what atheism is, as something completely different based on nothing but this, you’ve already failed. Basically what you’ve said is, of the people who don’t believe any gods exist, in other words, of the set of people who fully match the criteria for being atheists, some, but not all, would not worship a god if they were convinced of it. Okay, well, the fact that there are various subsets within a set doesn’t change the definition of the set, sooo that means nothing. Atheism remains a lack of belief in a god, and nothing more, and your argument falls flat on its face. It’s like if I were to say, “Most, but not all Christians I’ve asked believe Baptism is necessary, and therefore all Christians believe God doesn’t exist.” Like, how did you even get to that conclusion? But I’m getting ahead of myself, so based on that single premise, you’ve jumped to the conclusion that therefore atheism is *not* a lack of belief in a god, but a willful suppression of the truth of God’s existence. Gotta say, I find that a little bit confusing. Let’s get the basics out of the way for starters:
Atheism is a word. That word has a definition which is the lack of belief in any gods, and no syllogism is going to change the fact that that’s how people have defined that word. So regardless of any one’s opinion of the character of your god, atheism is still the lack of belief. But I guess what you really mean when you say that atheism is the willful suppression of the truth, is that people call themselves “atheist”, but they’re not really atheists, and atheists don’t even exist, because every atheist on the planet is a secret believer, who’s just pretending God doesn’t exist, because somehow we think if we pretend Big Brother doesn’t exist, then they can’t see us breaking the rules through the telescreen? Pretty fuckin’ asinine, you ask me, but okay, if that’s what you really think, I guess you’re entitled to. So, since you think atheists don’t really exist, there’s a word that refers to nothing that’s just hanging around. The word “atheist” doesn’t refer to anyone who actually exists, so it’s kinda useless, right? And so for convenience’s sake, you’ve chosen to just redefine that as “suppression of the truth of God’s existence”, and apply it to every one who’s currently called an atheist. I can see why you would do that. If you have two sets that contain just the exact same people, and you say that one of them doesn’t even exist, you might as well just take the label from the one that’s well known, and apply it to the other one. Seem kinda sensible. A bit confusing, but efficient. But the way that you’ve reached the conclusion, that that’s what atheists are actually doing is the really amazing part of all of this, because your assertion is, Atheists wouldn’t want to worship YOUR god, if he existed, therefore atheists wouldn’t want to worship any god if it existed, which is already a stretch, by the way, considering that maybe there are plenty of other gods they would actually worship if they were convinced that they exist — you know, gods that aren’t quite as completely shitty as yours. And therefore (now get ready for the biiig leap), atheists believe your god exists, and they’re just pretending they don’t. You broke my brain, dude. So the short version is: If you claim not the believe that something exists, and you wouldn’t want to perform religious rituals and constantly express your adoration for that thing if it did exist, then you believe in that thing. Yeah, brilliant. If you claim to think that Dark Lord Sauron is fictional, but you also wouldn’t want to worship him if he was real, then you must believe Sauron exists, and you’re just suppressing the truth of the Dark Lord. WOW, Loud Music Guy. With this new magic trick of logic, I bet I could make you believe just about anything, couldn’t I? Let’s see here. If you say you don’t believe I have a 16 inch cock, and you also wouldn’t want to worship it if I did, then you secretly believe I have a 16 inch dick. Well, thank you for the compliment. But then again, we both know *you’d* want to worship that moose-cock. As a matter of fact, in part 2, we’ll even prove it using your own reasoning, so maybe you really don’t believe I have 16 inches.
Dammit! But that’s it for part 1, thank you for watchin’. If you like my content, then consider supporting me on Patreon. And here is a list of all of the people who support me at $5 or more. And they, and everybody else who supports me through Patreon or Paypal are very much appreciated, whether they’re on this list or not. If you want to see more of my videos, subscribe and thumb up this one, and I’ll see you in the next part! [Outro song plays]